Hitler is alive and well — 45 Comments

  1. The Nazi comparison is as good as any though anti-smokers would argue that Jews had no choice. Regardless, the ban in workplaces was clearly designed to punish rather than protect. Hitler would have been proud.

    • Technically I suppose the Jews could have converted to something else? 

      That aside, the old "health" argument has long since been disproved as there is no health reason whatsoever for banning smoking in the open air.  And if health is the reason, why are they trying their best to ban electrofags?

      Nah!  This is plain simple hatred of a minority group, and they will twist the knife whenever they can, simply because they can.

      • Yes, Prog, that’s often given as the justification.  But, in reality, what people are saying with that argument is that this kind of bullying and persecution is (in their view) justified, provided those being bullied have the means to capitulate to their persecutors and do as they are told.  This is tantamount to saying that persecution, in and of itself, is just fine and dandy.  

        State-authorised and supported bullying against any group – whether they have the means to “do as they are told” or not – is immoral, unfair and plain wrong.  Always.  It is every bit as wrong against smokers (or drinkers, or fat people, or people who play golf, or people who wear green ties) as it was against Jews (or black people, or gay people, or disabled people).  Because it’s wrong in principle.

        No wonder we have an explosion of bullying in schools, workplaces and on the Internet when our “leaders” are giving out such tacit (and not-so-tacit) support to the activity.

      • There is no reason, in fact, to ban smoking indoors, either, apart from the fact that some people might not like the smell. But you could say the same about perfume. My ex-wife used to react very badly to the over-application of certain perfumes, and several times we had to leave a restaurant mid-meal because she was about to throw up. I didn't, however, lobby parliament to ban perfume because I didn't like it. Nor did I try to create the lie that 'second-hand' perfume was harmful to others.

  2. Not casting any aspersions but there's probably a better chance of getting money out of smokers!! 😉

    • They have been doing that for decades.  Who pays for the "health" service!  😉

      And don't forget – they're going after the drinkers and anyone who like a drop of sugar/salt now.

  3. I am still puzzled how smoking, considered normal just 10 years ago has become the cause of all illness and death. Given the loss of tax revenue and the assumption that smokers die earlier, less pension and long term care, not that I have seen any evidence for that among my own family and friends, you would think they would encourage it.

    • If people had been dropping dead in the streets for no apparent reason and they suddenly discovered cigarettes were the cause, I could understand it.  As it stands, none of it makes any sense whatsoever.

  4. Appalling – why can't people see how insane Tobacco Control has become? What is WRONG with people that allow such things to happen in the name of "health". 

    • A combination of propaganda, brainwashing kids, shoddy and blatantly false "research" and an apathetic, gullible public.

  5. We live in countries whose laws are made, interpreted, and enforced by gibbering idiots backed up the malice and rancour of the neo-prohibitionists whose greatest fear is that someone, somewhere, is enjoying doing something the NPs don't want them to.

  6. I don't get it.  Some guy was parked on the side of the road, on a tractor, having a smoke and he got fined?  WTF?

  7. Why didn't he just batter the living shite out of the scrote. The fine's probably less, his knuckles will heal and he would have enjoyed doing it immensely.

  8. It’s America that’s popularized antismoking insanity – again, and which other countries are following suit. The problem with Americans is that they are clueless to even their own recent history. America has a terrible history with this sort of “health” fanaticism/zealotry/extremism or “clean living” hysteria – including antismoking – that goes back more than a century.

    Antismoking is not new. It has a long, sordid, at times very violent, 400+ year history, much of it predating even the pretense of a scientific basis or the more recent concoction of secondhand smoke “danger”. Antismoking crusades typically run on inflammatory propaganda, i.e., lies, in order to get law-makers to institute bans. Statistics and causal attribution galore are conjured. The current antismoking rhetoric has all been heard before. All it produces is irrational fear and hatred, discord, enmity, animosity, social division, oppression, and bigotry. When supported by the State, zealots seriously mess with people’s minds on a mass scale.

    For a brief history of antismoking, see:

    “Cigarette Wars: The ‘Triumph’ of the Little White Slaver” (1998) by Cassandra Tate. Google the following combination – “the endless war on tobacco” “seattletimes” – which should bring up a summary article of the book at the Seattle Times.

    Gordon L. Dillow (1981), “Thank You for Not Smoking” [The Hundred-Year War Against the Cigarette]

    “From Pope Urban VII to Bloomberg, Four Centuries of Smoking Bans”, Jennie Cohen (2011)



  9. There were antismoking crusades long before the large tobacco companies came on the scene. There were antismoking crusades long before the mass-produced cigarette. There were antismoking crusades long before movies and mass media. There were antismoking crusades long before attempts, however bastardized, at scientific investigation of smoking. There were antismoking crusades long before the recent concoction of secondhand smoke “danger” [The term “passive smoking”, without basis, was coined during the N#zi era].

    The common theme over those 400+ years is the extent to which rabid antismokers will lie to rationalize their incoherent hatred of smoke/smokers/smoking. Hostility, violence, cruelty, bigotry, neuroses, megalomania, pathological lying, a “god complex” – antismoking has it all. There’s more than ample evidence over the last few centuries that the rabid antismoking mentality (misocapny) is a significant mental disorder. Yet here we are again.

    Appease antismokers (prohibitionists) with State support and their claims become progressively more absurd and hysterical, and their demands more draconian and inhumane.

    • Firstly, the Nazis also had a war on tobacco. However, there are also a number of important similarities between denormalization of the Jews and current denormalization of smokers. You’re correct. There isn’t the wholesale murder of smokers but that doesn’t mean there isn’t something tragically astray.

      Long before the genocide, Jews underwent a denormalization assault that made the eventual genocide possible. They were depicted by officialdom as less than human, as burdens to society, and disease carriers/spreaders. They were banned from parks and entranceways lest they contaminate the superior Aryans. The denormalization of smokers is very similar. Smokers/smoking have been depicted as reckless “addicts”, as diseased and disease spreaders (through secondhand smoke). They have been banned from more and more places, firstly from the indoors and more recently from more and more outdoor areas such as parks, beaches, entranceways lest they contaminate and offend superior nonsmokers. They are depicted as a burden to society and there are now a growing number of employment bans on smokers, denial of medical treatment, denial of housing (even the elderly). In the UK, smokers are banned from fostering/adoption. There are now instances of attacks, even murder, solely for the reason that a person was smoking.

      Some of the markers of denormalization that have been pounded into the public by State-supported/funded campaigns over the last few decades:

      Smokers as malodourous  
      Smokers as litterers  
      Smokers as unattractive and undesirable housemates  
      Smokers as undereducated and a social underclass  
      Smokers as excessive users of public health services  
      Smokers as employer liabilities

      If you spend even a little time on comments boards on smoke-related articles, one thing that quickly comes to the fore is the sheer hatred directed at smokers. A particular author has taken a selection of antismoking comments gathered from comments boards over the last few years that just seethe with hatred:

      This has been promoted by officialdom.

      So, the tractor incident indicated in the current thread is only the very tip of the iceberg.

      • You could have finished after this sentence: "There isn’t the wholesale murder of smokers but that doesn’t mean there isn’t something tragically astray."

        Seriously. I will not merit this ridiculous comparison by discussing it. But are you aware that you are actually undermining your own cause? 

        Also, Godwin called again.

        • Shouting Godwin at intervals does not win an argument, particularly as the modern Tobacco Control Industry has its roots in the Nazi system.  Read Some History's comments again.

          • Ok, the Godwin part is just a joke, not an argument.

            Can you show me an example of violence against smokers? Stupid laws, ridiculous fines, unnecessary ostracism – yes, but show me an example of violence.


          • I was going to mention Godwin's Law, as well as the Nazi anti-smoker movement, or whatever you'd call it, but I see you've already gotten there. I will say, though, that of course Hitler wasn't the first anti-tobacco fanatic. Really, there's little original about him, except he was the first to put twentieth century technologies to that sort of use.
            We have no record of pre-Columbian anti-tobacco fanatics that I'm aware of, so the distinction of being the first may belong to King James I. He was perhaps the first to ban indoor smoking, though today's anti-smoker crowd seem to have a fairly ahistorical worldview, so I doubt they borrowed from either King James, or Hitler. Really, people have been banning the enjoyments and pleasures of others for as long as recorded history.

  10. @Jed 

    No – Godwins Law does not apply here. Godwins applies to LONG discussions that will always end with Hitler or Nazism. Hitler was in the title of the post! The question was a rhetorical one – that Tobacco Control, by their actions, can be likened to the persecution of a minority group – Jews in Germany – as Hitler came to power. Where is Godwin ffs? The point of the post should be seriously scary to a thinking person.

    How is anyone undermining their own cause? Confused at this point…are you pro Anti Tobacco, or not?

    • I know, shouldn't have brought Godwin into that – it was a joke, but if no one gets it as one, it means it was a crappy joke.

      I'm neither pro or anti tobacco, or pro anti tobacco. I'm a smoker. I think smoking ban in pubs and restaurants is good. I think penalizing somebody for smoking in his own tractor is beyond ridiculous. Where does it place me?

      I understand the comparison Grandad makes in his post, 'that Tobacco Control, by their actions, can be likened to the persecution of a minority group – Jews in Germany' and I find it blown out of proportion to the point of being ridiculous. As such, I think using this argument will bring more harm than good to your own cause. I hope I'm being clearer now.

      • @Jed

        Well, I'm willing to bet you are a young person who has grown up in a smoking-repressive age, believing what Tobacco Control have told you, that smoking is vile. You probably sort of hate yourself for smoking. But some of us here are probably "oldies" – I'm 70 and a child of the sixties when smoking was acceptable, and most people did it. I have been left shocked at how Tobacco Control has grown into a massive industry that has consumed trillions, to bully, badger, persecute and lie to smokers to get them to stop smoking.  The intrusion into people's personal lifestyles is unimaginable to a younger person because they do not know what it was like before the repression. The interesting thing is how the deceit of Tobacco Control and their co-operation with Big Pharma, is being exposed by their antics against vaping, as an ideology rather than any concern for the health of society. I suspect you have never met an ideology before and have no idea how dangerous having one can be. We live in interesting times!

  11. Dear Grandad

    These are not tobacco control officers, these are smoker control officers.

    There are no anti-smoking, anti-tobacco, anti-tobacco company fanatics – they are all anti-smoker, for without smokers there is no smoking, tobacco or tobacco companies. The target of the 'antis' persecution is of people who enjoy consuming a particular legal product and most, if not all, of the persecutors are funded by the taxpayer, including tobacco taxpayers, who are forced to pay for their own persecution.

    Hitler would be proud.

    How can we return to a free spirited life of live and let live?


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